The awareness of the importance of counseling couples is growing. Fortunately, certain problems that were previously ignored are resolved today after one conversation with a good counselor. * We present a special conversation with R’ Yitzchok Chaviv and his wife who have spent years practicing family and couples counseling. * Should people speak to a rav or a professional? What is the difference between a Chassidishe professional and one who is not Chassidish? What is a couple’s role within a Chassidishe family? Is it right that the mashpia from yeshiva should continue to counsel a young couple?
By Shneur Chaviv
When the idea came up to interview my parents, R’ Yitzchok and Simcha Chaviv, I thought it would be awkward for me to sit facing them as an interviewer. But after three hours of fascinating conversation, I left with many thoughts and insights about relationships and family life.
My parents have always been involved in trying to understand the human psyche. I remember long conversations between them when they started their communal work and ran the Chabad School in Gilo and later as shluchim for French speakers in Yerushalayim. Psychology and analysis of human behavior were regular topics of discussion in our living room on the fourth floor of HaRosmarin 6 in Gilo, the house where my parents lovingly raised ten children.
There are many types of shluchim and they can be divided according to their personality and talents. There are shluchim who are askanim, some are entrepreneurs, some are salesmen, and some who draw people in with their personal charisma. My parents are shluchim who have a deep understanding of people’s inner workings. This talent is expressed in their shiurim and farbrengens and in the way they mekarev other Yidden.
In recent years, a significant part of their efforts have been devoted to counseling couples, in guiding brides and grooms, and helping people handle complicated life challenges.
We sat together around the old, wooden elliptical table, where my parents have met with hundreds of couples who came on the brink of breaking up and left the house with a new path, united and excited, after a lot of inner work, support and proper direction.
On a personal level, I was always fascinated watching them working together in perfect harmony. Working together takes care of Halachic conflicts, for each one has his and her role which complements the other. They are spouses who work in synchronicity, and are like two kings with one crown and each one gives the other all the credit. My mother contributes her professional background, the degrees, the many courses and a lot of professional knowledge. My father contributes his talent, his sharp thinking, the precise diagnosis.
“As far as I’m concerned, this is an art,” said my father, when I asked him whether he sees himself as a rav or a professional. A craft is a combination of knowledge, technique, and mostly lots of talent, and this they both have in abundance.
RABBI OR PSYCHOLOGIST
How did you get from the world of shlichus and outreach to marriage counseling?
It just happened. It started with couples and families of the French speakers who came to us in our role as shluchim, who had problems with relationships and shalom bayis. We got involved and boruch Hashem, we had tremendous siyata d’Shmaya (heavenly assistance) and the couples left satisfied. Word got around and other couples began coming to us. We knew we could not ignore this gift from G-d. If we had the ability to help couples strengthen their Jewish homes, we had to do so. In an effort to create a professional team, we went for training, and in recent years, along with our work at the Chabad House for French speakers, we devote part of the day to advising couples.
You started out doing this as shluchim and then became professionals. The dilemma often arises whether to speak to a rav or a professional. What do you think?
Excellent question! We believe that the Torah is the source of knowledge. Torah preceded all the theories and psychological teachings to understand and treat the human psyche by thousands of years. It’s all in Torah; with Torah, you can also reach places that science still hasn’t gotten to.
At the same time, being a talmid chacham is not enough to solve relationship problems. It’s just as the Gemara says: someone who is not an expert in gittin and kiddushin should not be involved with this area, even if he is a big Torah scholar. This is because it requires a very specific kind of understanding. The same premise applies to your question. Not every rav or mashpia can solve relationship crises.
Sometimes it’s an easy matter that can be resolved with an encouraging talk or a minor correction in approach, and sometimes there are more complicated, sensitive matters that really need expertise. In these cases, sometimes, saying the wrong thing can lead to catastrophe. There are also deceptive situations, in which seemingly peripheral issues conceal episodes from the past, and only with professional therapy and lots of siyata d’Shmaya can you figure it all out and solve problems.
This is the reason why questions regarding marital conflict are not for every mashpia or rav, but only for someone with the specific understanding and experience in the field of relationships. Sometimes a bachur consults with his mashpia. His mashpia can be a young man who is a shliach in the yeshiva or a young teacher. For a bachur this is wonderful. But when there is a family, when it’s about relationships, it’s not a sure thing that this wonderful mashpia of his youth has the tools and ability to address his new concerns. The young man can certainly continue consulting with a rav about his Avodas Hashem and about his learning, but when it comes to relationships one needs someone who has an understanding of this.
A couple once came to consult with us. We began working with them and slowly started seeing results. The situation improved tremendously and then one day the woman called and said they were going to stop coming to see us. She said her good friend told her she just needs a good mashpia who will understand and guide her and everything will work out. A few months later, the husband called and said they were well on their way to splitting up.
So you’re saying that people should speak to professionals.
Yes, but not just anyone. There is no question that knowledge of psychology or psychoanalysis and different treatment approaches are an advantage. The big problem with science is that it does not deal with goals in life. It only addresses the causes, the forms and expressions of life, but not the purpose of existence.
IGNORING THE DRIVER
In other words, what Freud and others did was work like researchers. A researcher sits for years doing research on what causes cars to turn right and left and concludes that it’s the signal light. His research is supported by facts and statistics, but he does not understand that it’s not the signal that causes the car to turn but the driver who is turning the wheel.
Let’s try and explain it in Chassidic terms. Science only deals with the animal soul. From an academic perspective, it must ignore the existence of the G-dly soul. So someone who only has an animal soul, like a gentile, can be helped by the usual psychological approach. However, someone who has a G-dly soul and is treated in a way that completely ignores its existence, its needs and its desires, such therapy won’t suit him. For a Jew, the G-dly soul plays a key role in the totality of the psyche.
Just like you don’t study safrus (how to be a scribe) at Betzalel (art school) or at a graphics art program, and you don’t study mila in medical school, so too, the treatment of the members of a Jewish home cannot be learned in psychology classes. A therapist who is not religious or someone who only uses methods taught in secular programs, who does not relate to the spiritual G-dly dimension of the Jewish family, cannot provide the right therapy to a Chassidic family that wants to build a Jewish home.
We see this in letters from the Rebbe. The Rebbe tells Jews who ask him about an array of psychological problems to “do as it says in Shulchan Aruch.” What connection is there between living according to Shulchan Aruch and neurotic disturbances? For a Jew, the G-dly soul and the bond with G-d are a crucial element in his psychological makeup and cannot be ignored. When it’s clear what a person’s life goal is and his connection to his Creator is revealed, he achieves understanding and acceptance, and from there the road to correction is smoothly paved.
If I understand you correctly, what you are recommending is a professional therapist who is also a Chassid.
Definitely. It’s not desirable but obligatory. Furthermore, it’s not enough for him to be a Lubavitcher. He needs to be someone who draws his knowledge from Torah and Chassidus and allows room for the G-dly soul and its needs and desires in therapy. He also needs to be a professional who is experienced in various techniques. A rav, who is an expert in Halacha, or a big maskil in Chassidus, may not provide the right response in clinical situations. So you need to find someone who combines both qualities. Boruch Hashem, today there are many people who combine professional knowledge and techniques for psychological insight as it appears in Chassidus and the writings of the Rebbe.
THERE ARE NO “FIXED ROLES” IN RELATIONSHIPS
One of the phenomena today in the religious world, which is starting to infiltrate the Chabad community, is women becoming the primary breadwinners. This causes many women to invest heavily in careers and degrees. Sometimes, they attain senior positions and some claim this leads to the blurring of the traditional roles of the man and lady of the house. What do you think about this?
My mother responded:
I don’t believe in the word “role” when it comes to relationships. The word tafkid is from the root meaning “order” and “to give an order,” and a Jewish home is not run by “orders” and jobs. Judaism is quite clear about this and it also connects with what we said earlier about a therapist who is not connected to Chassidus. Judaism sees the family unit as a harmonious entity, not one of equality. The place of a man and woman in the home is different. Each of them has to do their maximum in their work and that is the only way each of them fulfills his and her purpose. Together, they create a beautiful harmony.
Imagine an orchestra comprised of one type of instrument or a musician who decides to switch the manner of playing a given instrument. He drums on a piano and moves his fingers on a drum like on a keyboard; obviously, nothing beautiful will emerge.
Modern life idealizes the principal of equality. Everything must be equal. According to the accepted view of marital therapists in the general public, there needs to be an equal division of privileges and obligations in the home. The husband and wife have to equally divide the household tasks. This idea is understandable when you are only dealing with form and function and not the goals of life.
THE RECIPE FOR HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS
The Rambam provides clear demarcations for the woman and the man in the home. He writes in Hilchos Ishus, chapter 15, “The Sages commanded that a person should honor his wife more than himself and love her as himself. If he has money, he must add in her favor according to the money. And he should not place upon her excessive fear, and his words with her should be with patience; he shouldn’t act depressed or angry.
“And thus our Sages have commanded that the woman honor her husband exceedingly and the fear of him should be on her, and she should do all her deeds according to what he says and he should be in her eyes as a ruler or king. She should orient her activities according to that which he desires and stay away from that which he hates. This is the manner of the daughters of Israel and the children of Israel who are holy and pure in their marriages. In this way their dwelling will be pleasant and praiseworthy.”
These halachos are not “primitive,” “benighted,” or “irrelevant,” G-d forbid. Rather, they are the recipe that Hashem provides for a happy marriage. When it says in Chassidus that the man is the mashpia and the woman is the mekabel, it is not a spiritual theory. It needs practical expression in the running of the home. When the natural order is overturned, the problems begin.
We had a couple who came with many shalom bayis problems. She ran a branch of a bank and had a Masters degree and had married very late. He was younger than she was and worked as a security guard at the entrance to a supermarket. We quickly realized that the problem was with the role reversal in the home.
It wasn’t easy. She had to be convinced that her husband had to take responsibility for the home even though she earned four times as much as he did. Then he had to be convinced that he could do it. And that he had no choice. He worked on himself and when he began behaving like a mashpia, she started responding like a mekabel. It worked, and Boruch Hashem they have a good relationship.
MASHPIA: TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!
What does it mean to be mashpia in practical terms?
The Halacha is that a husband must love his wife like himself and honor her more than he does himself. A woman does not have a Halacha like that because for her it’s natural and she doesn’t need to be told. To be a mashpia means to always be in a state of bringing the family to a better place, both materially and spiritually. In order to do this, as in a business plan, there needs to be a vision. The vision needs to be constructed together between them, but the man is the one who has to chart the way. Then he needs to take responsibility for this vision and lead the family in the spirit of the vision. The fact that the father is always leading the family and moving it along spiritually and materially should be readily apparent to the wife and even the children.
The problem starts when the father concedes this responsibility, or he feels that he cannot lead the train and he becomes one of the compartments. Then things start to crumble. Even if the family unit does not actually break apart and externally it all runs as usual, internally it is broken and this will be seen later on with the children and in all kinds of unpleasant ways.
However, when the father takes his place at the engine, all the train compartments line up behind him. Of course he needs to do this with compassion, consideration, and the understanding of the unique emotional challenges of the household and their emotional, spiritual, and material needs.
THE PSYCHOLOGIST CAME TO SEE FOR HERSELF
To conclude, you said that you see your job as an art. In the course of your work you are exposed to moving stories. Please share one with us.
There are many, but the following story is unforgettable. A complicated situation from the welfare services was referred to us. It was a couple without children whose relationship was unbearable. Through a long process, we learned that the woman has a terrible relationship with her parents. Not only that, but her parents boycotted her wedding. Since there was also a physical and emotional handicap involved, the couple qualified for psychological help and welfare services.
Under the guidance of her psychologist and the entire professional team, the woman cut off contact with her parents. Under their tutelage, she tried to erase all emotional ties with them to the point that she was afraid to even mention their existence. When this came to us, we realized that disconnecting from her parents was the problem. Contrary to all the professionals, we started working on making peace between the woman and her parents.
It was a very long and difficult process, in which all parties had to be pushed to their limits of emotional endurance, but in the end, with a lot of siyata d’Shmaya, we arranged for a meeting between them. After they spoke and managed to understand one another, I suddenly had the idea of doing another marriage ceremony, this time with the parents’ participation, in order to rectify the terrible experience of a chuppa without parents.
We contacted a simcha hall, arrived at noon with the couple, the parents, and a few friends. We reenacted the wedding with a reception, simcha and dancing, this time with the parents in attendance.
Throughout the ceremony, I noticed a woman who was standing and watching it all skeptically. At the end of the moving ceremony she came over to me and introduced herself as a friend of the bride. She said she was moved and thanked me profusely. However, something about her conduct was strange. After the event, I made some inquiries and found out that the woman was the head psychologist who was supervising the case. She was the one who had thrown her weight behind the push to break up any ties between the daughter and her parents. When she heard about our approach, she could not restrain herself and came to see the wonder for herself.